In my opinion 'the Gypsy problem' is quite delicate. It was a nomadic society that had been travelling without working and going to school. Civilisation and people stopped them and made Gypsies change their lifestyle. In fact that caused a lot of problems because they weren't used to it. They started stealing, breaking the law and many other bad things against 'normal' society. We shouldn't make the same judgement eiher about each Gypsy. Most of them try living as we do although it's difficult. After all we must find a good solution to this problem for them and also for us.
The problem isn't Gypsies, but is integration. The issue appears when different people live together in the same place. The process of integration isn't simple for anybody, because it takes time and so does cultural change. The situation becomes difficult when there are prejudices and scarce knowledge about other cultures. Integration doesn't involve the loss of identity, but it allows culture and values to spread. Tolerance, respect of laws and other cultures are essential for integration.
Every day the current events tell us facts regarding the Gypsies. Many times we read newspapers or watch TV which refer to facts where the Gypsies are involved because they have committed some crimes. Even in everyday life, we have the possibility to see them, since perhaps they are asking for money at the streets. All that contributes to putting the Gypsy people into a bad light. The last measures taken by the Italian Government based on the fingerprinting of the Gypsies with the goal to identify each of them, have done nothing but increase the climate of hostility towards these people which was already present in our counrty. The main issue addressed by these facts is the "integration" of these people within society. I think that real integration is not reachable through a simple "classification" of the persons. Nonetheless, it is very important that Gypsies respect our laws. Real integration is possible only through an effective participation of the Gypsy people within the Italian society, so all of them should find a job and send their children to school, because education plays a fundamental role in constructing a better society.
During the last lessons, we have been talking about the Gypsy problem. This problem has become very actual because the government have proposed a law about the fingerprint of Gypsy children. According to them, this proposal permits to assure "the right of Italians not to be afraid". I think that this package is wrong, because it doesn't respect Gypsies' right. It's true that there are problems of integration between the Gipsy communiy and the Italian one. Besides, Italian media shows a lot of negative facts about Gypsies. I can't say the perfect solution to the problem, because I'm not a politician. Anyway, I think that every solution should respect Gypsies' right. On the other hand, it is necessary the respect of Italian law, not only by Gypsies but by everybody: unfortunately in Italy there is a lack of legality, and probably for this reason, people tend to give every kind of fault to foreign people, in particular to Gypsies. Fabio
The gypsies problem is a common problem all over the Europe. But i think that there is also quite disinformation about it.
In fact, we are thinking about them as a poor criminal people that never change because of their pride and culture, but also because of the periodical news reports that we listen to the radio and TV that led to consider them as a threat for our society.
I think that in our common sense, a consolidated fear on gypsies has been established, not only for racial reasons, but expecially for their traditions and their way of life, that sometimes, unfortunately, led to broke our laws.
In my opinion there is a real chance of integration. Our primary contribution is to their education (at least, to respect our laws) and to not lose their tradtions and roots.
In the end, i have to say that the education of poor people like gypsies requires our effort, that we have to take in account, because in my opinion laws aren't enough if there isn't a real interest, helpfulness and friendship to these people.
In general there are a lot of stereotypes and prejudices about Gypsies. In order to start solving this problem we need real and more information. We are often afraid of what we don't know but fingerprinting or ghettization are'nt in my opinion good and civil solutions. Also because I think that there is good behaviour and bad behavior and this does'nt depend on origin, race, what group of people you belong to but on the individual. Integration with a people so different and various is possible if everybody wants this and if there is a common effort, also by the Gypsy community.
I think that a total integration between Gypsies and other people is very difficult (if not impossible): the Gypsies are an ethnic group but they haven't got a particular country and territory. The laws of countries where they live can't be their laws, because these represent a reality that isn't part of their culture and mentality. However, their particular cultur musn't be an 'alibi' to profit from hospitality of states where they live. Finally, I think that states shouldn't try to change the Gypsies' culture and the Gypsies should respect the other societies.
In my opinion,the situation of Gypsies in Italy is getting more and more tragic.They don't have a country,move from place to place,so their life is nomadic.Gypsies want to integrate with other people,but it is difficult.Italian people don't try to asimilate with Gypsies,because stereotypes about them are very strong.It's not true that all Gypsies are bad.I heart a lot of negative opinions about them.Society doesn't accept Gypsies,because for example they steal a lot and I agree with this opinion.But on the other hand,Gypsies haven't got almost any rights.They live only with their comunity and usually are cautions in relations with other people.They live in poverty and desperate conditions,what's more they are uneducated and often need health assistance.Hostility,intolerance are something they experience from other people.It's a really tragic situation.I think the government is also responsible for that and should do something to help Gypsies and improve their life.
My opinion about the Gypsy problem and its solution is a little bit confused. I think that if Gypsies live in our country we should respect their way of life but they should respect our laws. This is the base to create integration between two different culture: respect and comprehension. Political government should work in this direction helped by media and political experts. But in a state where not all Italians respects laws it is difficult to apply this solution.
There are many prroblems in the Gypsies question. First of all, the prejudice and, consequently, the racism: many people thinks that the Gypsies are dangerouse, thiefs, dirty and often occidental people is afraid of the differences. So their reaction is hate for this etnic group. Another important problem that is particulary present nowdays, is the integration. The Gypsies are a nomadic group, that live in camps, generally in periferic area of a city. This factor helps to confine them to a ghetto. Their way of life is their culture, but is in contrast with our laws. We should try not to stifle this culture, but mahe them respectful of our laws. It's very difficult to conciliate this two aspects but surely fingerprinting aren't solution. Perhaps the better way to began a process of integration is to work with families, especially with children (the main victimes), explaining them the way of life of our society.
About gypsies i think that they are a little different from Italian people and this is only "one" reason that lead up to misunderstanding between us and them. To be different means that their customs and uses are different from Italian's ones, for example the concepts of work, education, respect for property, family and the personal hygiene. I think that every people has features that are resources for the world. I think that to know different persons from us is a good experience, but the reciprocal respect it's important. This means that if you are in my country, Italian or foreign, you must respect my laws. At least the laws! The respect of religion, usages and customs have to be implicit in the culture of every people in this world, but very often even this is not made. Well, i simply think that i'm very happy that gypsies choose our country to stay here for a short or long period, because Italian people are very hospitable, but hospitality must be respected.
Gypsies may be a problem in our society because they don't respect our law and they haven't any education. It's very difficult to not discriminate against these people. Only solution is the education: gypsies' children must go to school, where they will receive an education by civilised people, and the adults have to find a work and learn lo live together with Italians. I think that we cannot discriminate against these people because they aren't all criminals and they need to receive a chance. In Italy they aren't a real problem because only 5% of them have a nomadic life style and we need to integrate them into our society.
Gypsies have their own culture, traditions and different way of life but, first of all, they are people and we should respect them. It's important to underline that this respect isn't due to their being foreigners dut they should earn it as well as other people have to do. They should work, send children to school, respect the law: in few words, they should lead an honest life. They have to adapt to our lifestyle without assimilating (if they don't want) as well as we have to accept their diversities without judging. Obviusly Gypsies have to pay for crimes when thay decide to ignore the law like Italian criminals. I think that the only way to integrate Gypsies is to deal with them as common people. I know also that there are many prejudices and that media increase them more and more but if we would like to solve this "problem", we need to bind ourselves in our's small way.
During these lessons about the Gypsies I started finding out about these people. Before now,I judged according to the only thing that I knew, that is, Gypsies are nomadic people who, to live, beg at the junctions, at the stations and are in the newspaper for episodes of crime like thefts and kidnappings. I recognise that among them there are bad people and good people like everywhere. If a gypsy wants to work and to integrate in our culture we probably don't give him a chance because we could have prejudices and fear. So, that gypsy could have no choice of integrate and the problem could remain. During this period I read about their history and I understood that their way of life is a part of their culture ad maybe it could be wrong to force them to be different, to become like us. If integration means mixing our culture I wonder how we can meet each other.Do we expect that they cross out their history, their culture to became like us?And are we ready to welcome them, to give them a work, a chance? This is a problem because we are afraid also about our neighbours even more about a group of people we don't know anything about. I don't know if there is a solution to this problem that exists for all the minorities. Maybe the solution in inside our soul: we need to understand that everyone is different, has a personal history and should have a chance.
I think that there's a big difference between Gypsies' way of living and our way of living. This is the real problem. The Gypsies want to camp wherever they want and they want to do whatever they want even if it's not permitted by law. This is their culture. But in Italy or in other Countries there are laws that have to be respected by all people. So, the only way to live together without problems is that Gypsies should try to adapt their way of living to ours (for example go to schoool, find a job, etc..) and we should try to get rid of ours negative prejudice. This is not easy because a lot of gypsies are arrogant and out of control and because media shows only negative aspects of Gypsies. I think that Gypsies also have positive aspects and I'm curious to get to know them.
I don't think that we can speak about a Gipsy problem. Maybe the real problem are people without documents. They can't be identified and they can't be punished if they are guilty. In my opinion if you want to be integrated you must have the same rights but also the same obligations like the other people. I hope that in future we will be under the same rules.
It's really difficult to write something about gypsies without using stereotypes.My opinion is,just a little, politically uncorrect.I think that gypsies have the same rights that we have and that we have to respect them because first they are human beings like us.But in the other hand if you want to live in a society and you want to be integrated you have to share the same duties of the whole population.Everyone can benefit from the facilities of our society but you also have to partecipate to make this facilities possible.
I think that here in Italy we have been a problem with Gypsy people for several years. I grow up with people around me and around the other children saying that if a child didn't behaved well, then Gypsies would come and take him away with them. I always heard people saying that they are thieves, they kidnap children, they don't work and things like these. In the last months in Italy there was an increase in violence and discrimination against Gypsies. After the rape and the murder of Mrs. Reggiani near Rome, It seemed that people went crazy: the Italian government took severe measures against stowaways, above all to hit Gypsies, seen as scapegoats for every crime committed in Italy. I have to say that a lot of Gypsies don't want to work, they steal, they beat their wives when they don't get back home much money, they force their children to beg but also here in Italy we have men and women who commit crimes, husbands who beat their wives and their children. I know a lot of Gypsies who have a legal work, they are profssors, artists and a lot of them work illegally like many Italians; they also make jobs that Italians don't make since a long time: they are good blacksmiths, they are good in agriculture and sheep-farming. It seems that most of them are ashamed of being Gypsies and for this reason they present themselves as Italians, Croatians, Serbians and so on: their fear is the racism and the prejudice of the others. I'm often on the train and in the station and I like watching people and listening to them and I realize that in the last months we reached a level of incredible tension: any action is enough to bring out the worst in people. People set fire to some nomad camps, some primary school children, in Naples, did their homework writing "The Gypsies steal children to transplant their organs", "We are not racist but if they want to stay, they have to stop stealing". I don't think that It's a bad idea to take a census of Gypsies: many of them came here with no visa and no passport and they decided to live in a camp so it would be very important to have precise information about ther number and their occupations. Every 10 years in Italy there is a census, when I had to renew my identity card, I gave my fingerprints and also my boyfriend, who is Russian, had to give them when he arrived here for the first time and in may when he renewed his permit of stay so I don't believe that these measures are discriminating. It seems to me that some of them don't want to cooperate to their integration: they are too attached to their nomadic traditions and habits and they don't understand that world and life go on, things change and in our world there is no more place for a nomadic lifestyle. Integration isn't a oneway process and everyone has to do something: Italians have to show comprehension to these people because many of them come from very critical situations (Kosovo, ex Jugoslavia, perecutions and violence in other countries) and they have to give any kind of help Gypsies need; for their part, Gypsies must respect our laws, our rules and also our traditions. I think that the main problem is the prejudice between them and us: we consider them thieves, lazy good-for-nothing and they consider us racist. The main difficult is the ignorance: people have to overcome their prejudices and to be open-minded.
I really don't have a clear "opinion about Gypsies".
I can see that nowadays in Italy a lot of newspapers, t.v. programs, and mass media are talking about "inmigration" in general and people are talking about it, but I don't think that there's good and complete information about this complex issue. About Gypsies, information is less "complete". We don't know them, we don't know their history, we don't know their traditions and why they are here. I think that's also why interaction with them is very poor.
I think that real integration is possible. "Acculturation" not as a process where an ethnic group acquires the cultural characteristics or traditions of another one, loosing their own, but as a truly sharing, understanding and acceptance which can enrich both cultures based on mutual respect and tollerance.
I think Gypsies are not an issue, like any other immigrants. There are so many prejudices against Gypsies and, in my opinion, it's wrong labelling as "a problem" all different behaviours. Gypsies often get the bleam of violent crimes and I consider this just as a prejudice. In every people, no matter which ethnic group they belong to, there are honest and criminal men; so we have to fight against crime in general: Italian criminals as well as Gypsies, or foreign, ones. I disagree with last Italian crackdown, that provide for Gypsies identification by their fingerprints. I consider this measure an ethnic discrimination. I could justify fingerprints programme only if it will be extended to all people. I suppose there are different and less discriminant ways to identify people, and in particular immigrants. I think Italy needs a better law to control clandestine immigration and to integrate immigrants, Gypsies too, into Italian society, preserving every ethnic tradition. A good way to begin, I suppose, could be a better integration for foreign children in Italian schools.
The "Gypsy problem" it's quite critical and it needs to be resolved soon. The origin of the problem can be found in a reciprocal diffidence between Gypsies and Italians and in a persistence of prejudices. There are some facts regarding Gypsies that are absolutely true, the majority of them (but not all) don't seek any employement, they don't want to respect the Italian laws, it's not clear where they find money to live and buy expensive cars (often they do criminal activities) and they are not interested in an integration into the Italian social system, but on the other side the Italians are becoming a little bit more racist every day. I think that not all the Gypsies should be considered in the same way, criminals should be arrested but we should try to integrate the others with specifical projects. A fundamental thing to do is to grant the access to school to Gypsies childrens to give them the possibility to change their future while the adults should find a regular work (the Italian government could fund companies who use Gypsies workers for example), pay taxes and have identity documents (fingerprints can be useful). I think that Italians and Gypsies can live together but only if they will change their reciprocal point of view.
The relationship between the Italians and the Gypsies is a problem, of course! This is not a racist assertion, but an objective observation of the actual situation. Maybe they steal, maybe they don't want to accept our rules, but these are not the reasons for which the problem seems so irresolvable. We are scared about something or somebody who is different from us. About something we don't know, or we don't want to know. Many persons think we are not racist, and I agree, but the more the Italians feel threatened the more xenophobia will take hold. For us immigration is a quite new problem, a problem of the last twenty-thirty years; but Italians seem to have forgotten that just half a century ago they, too, were a nation of poor emigrants to America. Nowadays many Italians feel that their way of life is threatened by immigration. But the Gypsy problem, and immigration in general, are very complex situations that need to be tackled with a deep attention to the human rights and with a big sensibility. Qualities that don't characterize of course the members of the present government. What we can pretend from persons like Calderoli or Maroni, or from the Major of Rome Alemanno.. No other words are needed! But leaving apart any personal comment about the italian politicians, the first rule to follow is that if we are naturally scared about the immigrants and especially the Gypsies, the last thing to do is to feed the fear. Otherwise the result is a diffusion of barbaric acts of racism by the police forces and by the population, like the Naples arson attacks to roma camps or the episodes of violence in the quarter of Pigneto in Rome. We must invest in integration, trying to fill the gap between so different populations, but not pretending to smooth the differences, but rather betting in a reciprocal understanding. And to talk about a recent new, how we can speak about integration when the government proposes the so called "bridge-classes", or rather classes for only immigrants? We can learn something from the french cousins, who seem to have found a good way for the resolution of the immigration problem, with a level of integration that for us now could be only a dream. Anyway I give the gold medal in the challenge for the worst thing for a resolution of the immigration problem to ignorance. We can't resolve the problem with this "witch-hunt", that produces only racism episodes and intolerance, that grow up fed by ignorance and stupidity of the italian population and of the members of the italian government. Up until today we have pointed a finger at various scapegoats; resolving a problem is another thing.
I think that in Italy there is not a "gypsy problem" but there is a great problem that involves immigration and safety. It seems impossible on one hand to make people respecting laws, on the other hand to control the immigration phenomenon. In our country exist two types of crime: the former is the one that includes housebreaking, shoplifting, bag-snatching, beating, brawl, and it's generally connected with bad social and economical conditions; the latter involves "big criminal associations" and also if this is a greater problem than the other one, the first one involves people more directly also because they perceive an immediate danger for their own life; for this they ask government to take measures expecially against these types of crimes. Gypsies are at this level, because they often refuse laws of the country they are living in and duties that are the ones of italian cytizens, but lots of times making use of thei rights. People associate crimes such as housebreaking or pick-pocketing with the uncontrolled immigration phenomenon and they ask government to take strong measures to gurantee their safety. It's difficult to solve the "immigration problem" and it would be better to try to integrate them in the society, without taking racist and extreme measures, which only hide the governments' incapacity to solve problems such as the ones connected with immigration, integration and safety.
I often have the impression tha in Italy some problems don't receive much attention, either referring to some people's interest for a particular problem or referring to the absence of analysis and intervention by government and public actors. So it happens that on one hand nobody does anything for a long time and on the other hand suddenly threre's a sensation of an urgent problem to solve backed by tv news and wespapers giving a large space to a particular issue for a certain period of time followed by silence again. That's what happened, in my opinion, relatively to the gypsies question, I mean: the problem of the cohabitation of Italians and the different Roma Gypsies groups is not new and it should have been faced much time ago. Quoting one of the articles we read, I would say that there's a gypsy problem as well as an Italians' problem with Gypsies. Everything starts from a reciprocal respect that many times for many reasons was absent. I'd like the attention not to be concentrated only on the cultural diversity when referring to the question of integration, as if integration meant necessarily an omogeneous society, instead I simply would like to talk about rights and duties of individuals and groups of people that are by nature different. What I want to say is that the problem seems to me not who the Roma Gypsies are, or how they live, dress, etc., but how they behave. Personally, I don't have a racist nature, so, in relation to some bad episodes we read about, I can't accept or understand any kind of violence and offence at all. So I think some Italians are wrong when they have some strong prejudices towards the nomads. But respect must be reciprocal. It's a fact that some groups of gypsies use to steal or have wrong behaviours, such as their claim to travel by public transport without paying, each time counting on the fact that, not having documents, and an 'official' identit, they won't receive a punishment. And that's not fair. There must be equal rights and equal duties, as we all are citizens living in a certain state under certain rules. On one side I think that state should encourage a dialogue between us and them, but at the same time I think that no one should force the nomads to live like us, in the end they're not interested in, most of them seem to me interested in a dialogue not much more than Italians. But they cannot expect not to change something in the way they relate to us, and the problem of identity is, in this sense, certainly important. I don't know if taking their fingerprints is the best thing to do, however I think that it is necessary to do something. In my opinion fingerprinting could be a possible thing to do, only if it is applied as a solution to a 'technical problem', so applied to all immigrants and people liing in Italy that don't have documents not taking care of ethnic orgin, religion or personal details of people, and not only to Gypsies.
Gypsies have historically been Europe's most disadvantaged and discriminated against ethnic group. With an estimated seven million people (in Europe), Gypsies are Europe's largest minority and an obvious target of persecution. In several Eastern European countries, Roma, with their distinctive appearance, way of life, and sometimes also religion, provide a convenient scapegoat and focus for old prejudices and new frustrations. About 20 years ago, a continent-wide ascension of racism swept the East. The racist attacks were directed primarily at the Roma. I can not remember those times but I remember that when I was at the age of 5 or 6 years old it was quite normal to meet Gypsy women in the city centre. They tried to convince You about their ability to foretell the future. My mother always repeated that I should by careful because one of them wants to predict but other one wants to steal my money. Also my grandmother told me a story about Gypsies situation in her village in the second half of the XX-th century. She said that Gypsies in that time led a nomadic life walking from house to house and asking for food and money. Most of them were trying to steal farm animals, fruit and vegetables from orchards. Nowadays we hear mostly good things about Gypsies but only because of Polish Roma who do not maintain relationships with Rumanian Gypsies. “We have earned our place here. Our women are clean, and children washed. We build houses and don't sleep on the floor. Rumanian Gypsies bring us shame." Polish Romas` opinion There is the Gypsy problem in Italy as well as in Poland. On the one hand there a lot of organizations, associations and federations which struggle for Gypsies existence, rights and liberation from prejudice. But on the other hand- many people in Poland do not approve of the efforts of the actors, nurses, and hospital personnel who provide assistance to the Roma from Rumania.
"There is so much poverty in Poland and you are not moved by it, but you have pity for those dirty wanderers. It is their own fault. They should work and help themselves”
I think that we need time to stamping out prejudice, but they will not become extinct without effect by Gypsies. I have read the Brzeg city forum. One man depicts a shattering scene in which a group of Gypsies beat up a Polish boy and shortly after said “ You can do nothing because we are protected” After the police arrived, none of Gypsies was noted down or arrested. Like all over the world there are a lot of good and bad people from each nation and I think that everyone has their individual conscience and free will to help Gypsies (or not) to adapt to the Polish (or Italian) reality. What we should do is to realize and accept that they are different- without judging them. It is also important to respect their traditions and culture which sometimes is so different from ours.
In the collective immagination we usually associate the term Gypsy with members of the Roma people. I think that there are many different kinds of Gypsies. Traditional we can divide them by the ethnic group. In fact each one has a different culture and a different style of life. But from a legal point of view we must divide them by their citizenship. In fact States have to act in different ways because of their nationality. For example all European Gypsies can travel in Europe without any restriction because they belong to the European Union which is based on the value of the liberal circulation of people and goods. Speaking about gypsies with an Italian citizenship, I think that we can't force them to live like us, but we have to respect their way of life and we must allow them to live in accordance with their tradition as much as possible. So, if they want to live in nomad camps Italian State can permit it, but it should oblige them to respect an health regulation, for example by the destruction of the shanty towns and the building of special structures. In addition I think that the State has to impose education on gypsy children because our laws say that every Italian child has the right to education and because it's important for their integration into our society. Furthermore, in my opinion they have to work ( because if you don't work the only way of life is to steal!!) and pay taxes like other citizens. In conclusion I think the State must strongly fight against every crime and every behaviour which is in contrast with the Italian law.
Nowadays, the issue of Gypsies is one of the most crucial and relevant topics of discussion. Politicians and ordinary people have provided their opinion about the presence of these nomadic populations within Eastern countries and around the biggest European cities. I live in a country where people and institutions feel the problem. Too many shantytowns, where people live in very bad conditions, developped in the suburbs of Naples, Rome, Turin, Milan and in many other towns. The integration process of these homeless should be included in the political agenda of local and central governments in order to let them live in a fair and more respectful society. However, such a process must be reciprocal and Gypsies have to respect the laws and the rules of the country which hosts them. For sure, the co-existence of different cultures and ways of life needs a kind of not simple reciprocal recognition. Recently, news-papers and TV programs have told us facts related to Gypsies, such as the fire-raising of a Roma camp in Naples in May and many other events associated with robberies and crimes commited by nomads. In this situation, I shall point out the matter of the prejudice some people have against those who choose a different way of life: not every Gypsy is a kidnapper or a delinquent but, for sure, some of them are forced to commit crimes as a reaction to a society which emarginate them. In such a context, as I showed above, the role of the State is fundamental, cause it should create the conditions for a peaceful convivence respecting the different cultures and force these people to respect common rules, for example the necessity to be recognized. Neverthless, especially in my country, sometimes political parties use this problem to do propaganda in a demagogic and populisic way, without actually caring about the problem. I think everyone has to do his part; behind a different behaviour may exist an important resource for our society. Certainly, the first step is the creation of common rules of behaviour, around which everyone agrees. In second place, I suppose the right of vote (at least for local elections) can represent an historical step to allow these people to express their problem and to ask the institutions for solutions. It is a long process, but I hope that in a few years we'll speak about this issue with new words and new concepts.
My opinion about Gypsies is the very different culture about italian style. But I think also that we have an old complicated story. We didn't yet solved our internal social problems between the northen and southest part of Italy. In Italy have a particular point of view, that differences are like a wall between people not a source to respect or a point to start to open your mind. We are not clear in our society to do respect simple and common laws to all people, italian and foreing included.
During the last election campaign, the right-wing parties stressed very much the need for more security for Italian people. The biggest country security problems, they said, are coming from Roma people, Gypsies and more in general illegal immigrants. In Italy, after the case of Giovanna Reggiani, a woman brutally killed in Tor di Quinto, near Rome, by an immigrant, there was a very strong sentiment of hatred against those people; the right-wing parties successfully exploited this feeling and won. Only a month after the elections, the news (that was proved to be a hoax) of an attempt of kidnapping a child near Naples by a Roma girl set off the bomb: two nomad camps were set on fire by Italian people, forcing the Gypsies that were living there to leave; the news began reporting assaults on immigrants everyday; the defense minister stated that he was going to use the Italian army nearby the camps; and the home minister said that he wanted to take fingerprints of every Gypsy child, causing strong reactions by UNICEF and the EU. Since then, we haven't heard about Gypsies very much. We can almost say that they served the purpose, and now we can forget about them. Nevertheless, Italian people still feel unsafe, and when questioned about what we should do with Gypsies, the majority answers that they must leave Italy, that fingerprinting children is a good thing, and so on; in short, they like the government measures. And how's Italian lack of safety related to Gypsies? The most common answers are because they steal, they kidnap children in order to use them to ask for charity in the streets, they don't even know the very notion of “law”, so it's impossible to make them obey our ones.
Are those things true? Actually not: every news report of Gypsies kidnapping a child was proved to be false; it is a quite common urban myth. Do they steal? Yes, of course. But Italian people steal too; and if we make difficult for them to find a job, they will steal more and more. We can argue that stealing something to eat (or something to sell in order to buy some food) might not be a bad thing per se. The actual problem is that whoever steals (Italian or not) isn't immediately arrested by the police, tried and punished. Are the government measures going to stop these crimes? Of course not: while stating that they'll take fingerprints and put soldiers in the streets, the government was suspending trials for crimes such as theft, burglary, abduction, and so on (this was later discarded, when the prime minister obtained his impunity with another law). Clearly the government intent wasn't the enforcement of laws, that could really help people to feel safer. An integration process should begin with the respect of laws by all the parts involved; statements like “Gypsies have no concept of laws” don't actually mean anything, if laws are observed by everyone. Moreover, the State has to play an active role in order to help these people to integrate, without discrimination, and this role is very important for Italian people too, because usually (and historically) people have mistrust of “strangers”. The State must help them to find a job, to live decently, and integrate into the Italian society without losing their own history, costumes and traditions; this doesn't require soldiers, this requires wise politicians, and in Italy we're short of them. Integration has never been an easy task, of course, and it requires years and years of efforts. But I think it's worth doing.
I agree with Giancarlo when he says that some problems don’t receive much attention for a long time since the media don’t talk about them, but between saying that and saying nobody does anything there is quite a different. Referring to the Gypsy problem, for examples, there are many municipal districts which locally have taken legal measurements in order to limit the crimes caused by that nomadic people. Of course when the problem arrives to the major organs of information, the resonance chamber is very larger, so it happens that it is felt as a very urgent question. Anyway, the problem of Gypsies’ integration is a hot topic, also especially after the come one after the other of current event’s facts in which they are involved. As I just explained, and also like Giancarlo says, integration should starts from our actions, which could try to respect the way of life of these people. However, at the same time, also the Gypsy should force themselves to making part of society by working and sending their children to school.
In Italy, in my opinion, people believe that all Gypsies are thieves or beggins but there are a lot of honest Gypsies. The home minister of Italy, Roberto Maroni, suggests taking fingerprints of Gypsies, including children, in order to guarantee safety but I think this is discriminating for those people. I could agree with taking fingerprints to all people, foreigners and Italians, who have committed a crime. In this way we could warrant safety, not only for Italians, but also for all immigrants who work honestly in our country.
In my opinion, it's impossible to control ilegal imigration to Italy. The only way to make this problem less strong is to help gypsies to find a job and to get used with italian culture. I think it could be a solution to avoid criminality. It's important also to undestand that the most part of the time imigrants come to Italy looking for a better future for their families. The only difference between them and us is that we have had the oportunity to grow up in better conditions. Other solution could be to let gypsy children going to school together with italian children. It's a good oportunity to open their minds and let them lern more about italian culture. Probably in the future, they would choose a different style of life for the next generations.
I think francesco has hit the target when he says that sometimes some Gypsies are forced to commit crimes as a reaction to a society which emarginate them. Of course this is not true at all, but it underlines the necessity of a integrated society which is essential to build a civil cohabitation. We have to stop to let them feeling hated. By this way we can change something. Of course not the criminals, but them who became criminals by living in a society that does not love them. A better society that has to be built by each other, of course, but we can play a particular role. They have an history of persecution, it is enough to think about what Hitler has done to them. The worst thing is the claim to change their lifestyle. If they want to be nomad they have the right to be nomad, but obviously they must respect the rules of the host country. Otherwise we go on in this sort of neverending loop.
I agree with Diana, because Gypsies's problem is very delicate and their different life style leads to difficult integration process. I also agree with Giulio that said TV and newspapers only refer a wrong picture of Gypsies and actual government is carring on a very discriminant and racist politicy.
I agree with you. Gypsies cannot claim only the rights of Italians, but they must respect obligation like them. We appear as racist and what about them?
I agree with who says that integration is possible, if we want it. Reciprocal respect and comprehension are important to start the process of integration and education of young Gypsies is a possible way to change this situation. Lorenza said that there is bad information about this people and I think it's true. Like Giulio I think that governament doesn't improve integration, for example it's sufficient to think about fingerprinting, that is very discriminanting.
I'm acoording with Diana when she says that if we try to stop Gypsies and change their style of life with the force, it is logical that they are going to have a bad actitude agaist society. However, It's difficult to find a good solution for them and also for us. Firstble we have to change our way of thinking about gypsies. we can start by lerning more about them.
I agree with Diego, Chiara, Lorenza, Gerardo, Elisa and Giulio because they wrote on the blog opinions which are very similar to mine. I disagree with Fede because I don't think that Italians do not want to open up to other people and other culture. On the contrary I think that Italians are very open and tolerant people.
I think that Diana has well explicated the 'Gypsy problem' and their difficulty to integrate in society. I agree with Luisa, Giulio, Fabio and many others. In the process of integration they believe it's necessary that Gypsies must respect our laws and I add that we have to respect Gypsies like all people. I was interested in Francesca's opinion. She has more direct knowledge about Gypsies than me. When she wrote about her Russian boyfriend she has reminded me that also my South-American friend gave his fingerprints when he arrived in Italy for the first time. In only case I believe that fingerprinting isn't necessary because I think is possible to take a census in other way.
If the population of Gypsies constitutes a problem I think we could resolve it with information and knowledge about their origins, or about the reasons they are escaping, that might be a war. We talk about Gypsies without having the minimum idea about them. It's clear that the media doesn't help us because they show only negative aspects and things about gypsies; that increases the negative view about them. Nowadays the italian government has created a "security problem" in our society because of two separated cases of violence last summer. I think that this is a strategy to keep us uninformed about the real problems of the society. For this reason the government wants to increase our security system by increasing police in the city and by fingerprinting of foreign people. I think this is a very discriminatory measure because we think they are guilty before they have committed a crime! Besides, in my opinion, having more guns on the streets doesn't increase my security but the contrary is true.
@Dario I think that the fingerprinting programme is wrong also if it is extended to all people. However I agree with Dario when he says that there is necessity to find a trade off between preserving Gypsies' traditions and improving integration in society. Also in my opinion integration should start from children and for this reason I think that separated classes are a very bad idea because it doesn't lead to benefits for education of boys and girls. In fact children learn very quickly. Integration is a very difficult challenge because the difference among cultures is unavoidable, but at the same time we have to try to reach it.
I agree with Carlo's opinion when he says "for us immigration is quite a new problem, a problem of the last twenty-thirty years; but Italian people seem to have forgotten that just half a century ago they where a nation of poor emigrants to America". Italian people can understand problems and resistances that Gypsies have to fight against, but they also remember the efforts made to adapt to American culture and laws. Italian emigrants lived and worked in subhuman conditions but we don't remember their crimes: rather we recognize their determination, their work and we should thank them because in many cases our granparents could continue their life in Italy with the honestly earned money. That's because we can't accept that Gypsies continue living without respecting laws and with expecting "not to change - as Giancarlo says - something in the way they relate to us". If we consider that "it's not clear where they find money to live and often buy (or steal???) expensive car - as Matteo says - and that they aren't interested in an integration into Italian social system", I'm not surprised that Italian people become more and more racist. Of course we shouldn't generalize because there are Gypsies who are integrated into our society, regularly work and send their sons to school. In this cases equal rights should correspond to the equal duties and several governements should be able to guerantee them.
I think that this is a serious problem especially in Italy. Gypsies must found a job, an house and must live like us, they must integrate in Italy. On the other hand Italian must accept Gypsies and don't exclude them. Unfortunately there's another problem like racism and because people doen't relys on strangers and it's so hard. For me only italian politics can change this situation with laws for Italian people and strangers.
I agree with Giulio and Diego when they talk about Gypsies' problem. I think their opinions are like mine: they also believe that real integration between the Gypsy community and the Italian one is necessary. Reading some other posts, I see that many boys and girls think it's very hard to realize a total integration, but it's a common opinion that every kind of integration solution should respect Gypsies' rigths. On the other hand, the respects of Italian low is necessary as well.
I agree with Lorenza when she says that we need real and more informations to start solving Gypsy problems. I think we must eliminate stereotypes and prejudices because in this society we have the possibility to be informed and to have a relationship with other societies. I disagree with Giusy when she says that Gypsies haven't got a particular country and territory, because I have read that it's not true. For example the population of Sinti and Rom have been living in Italy for a very long time.
I agree with Sylwia that the biggest problem is integration and acceptation Gypsies by other people.She underlined that the process of integration is not simply for anybody,because it takes time and reguires a lot of effort from people.For years Gypsies have experienced hostility and intolerance from other people,so their assimilation is getting more and more difficult.What's more Diana noticed that it caused they started stealing and breaking the law,because they haven't got almost any rights in "normal" society.Integration doesn't have to involve the loss of their indentity ,but is a good way to show values of other culture.
I really agree with Lizziebennet: talking about Gypsies there is the risk of using stereotypes caused by, I think, the poor knowledge we have of them, also because of the difficulty of interact with them in everyday life. About the question of 'Rights and Duties' I think that a concrete socialization of Gypsies is fundamental also to beat all the stereotypes that really exist around them. Becoming citizens of our Country they could have our rights but also our duties, that is the most important symbol of equality... I think that one of the most important question is that they are perceived as a social group that can live also without respecting a great part of duties that are the ones of Italian citizens. Identification of people living in our Country, in obedience of course to human rights, that is the most important thing that we can never and never forget, can be the first step to a real integration of everyone.
I agree with Linda when she says that Italians aren't ready to live together with other people of different cultures. In Italy there are too many prejudices about who is different from us and , in my opinion, there is no will to change.For example in this days the Italian government passes a law which obliged immigrant children to study in separate classrooms. In this way children get used to being scared of what is different and they aren't interested in knowing different cultures. Instead I think this is the only way to accept immigrants and lived together with them. I travelled a lot around the world and met a lot of people who have different religions and behaviours from mine. I learnt a lot from them, becoming a better person,and I hope they learnt from me too!!!
@debbie Your reasoning sounds quite dangerous, because it relies on the assertion that the State / the police must have some means in order to identify a criminal after he committed a crime.
But you can't force criminals to have an ID card (they will “lose” their own); so the next step will be taking some kind of biometric data (fingerprints, DNA samples, and so on) of every citizen – even those who aren't criminals –, which are really expensive and could pose a serious violation of our privacy (who will manage all these data? What are they going to do with?).
Moreover, there are many valid studies that prove that these kinds of identification measures are completely useless to fight crime, since it's cheaper and faster to use the “ordinary” investigation methods after a crime has been committed.
We must invest much more in crime prevention; and when speaking about Gypsies, these mean invest in their integration in our society, finding them a job, educate their children and so on.
Hallo... I'm Mari... I would like to correct my comment because I wrote 'the difficulty of interact with them' but I thing that I had to write 'the difficulty in interacting with them'... Excuse me... See you later!
I agree with Francesca and her analysis of the actual situation, the italian government until today have done anything to resolve the problem of Gypsies, all the measures taken are not structural, I think that there is the need of policies for the middle and long period, not only for the short period. I think also that a census of Gypsies it's necessary to have more information about their number,to give them a document of identity and to control the situation that is becoming every day more critical.
I think that Carlo is right when he says that nowadays the relationship between Italians and Gypsies is a problem and that the ignorance and fear of something different are the main hurdle in the integration process. It's true that It seems that Italians forgot their past as emigrants and the prejudice with which they were considered in the countries where they arrived. For Italy immigration is a new problem: Italians have to understand that their country is considered a land of opportunities. It seems that Italian politicians don't adopt intelligent policies while we need a well prepared political class able to implement effective policies of integration. I think that we need to solve the problem starting from the children in schools: they have to learn what repect, tolerance and integration mean. But I believe that also Gypsies have to do their part: Italians can learn to overcome their prejudices but if Gypsies continue to refuse to do anything, to cooperate for their integration, well I think that this problem can't be solved at all.
@Calo I decided to make a comment on Carlo’s opinion because we were talking about this “problem” during the lesson about Gypsies so I’m sure that our opinions are quite similar. I agree that we-people are scared about something or someone who is different from us. About something we don't know, or we don't want to know. It is easy to say that You are not racist when You live among people who are the same nationality, when You are among peers. But let’s thing about the situation that You would have to make an decision about hiring someone. Let`s make assumption that there are two people who have the same qualifications, and one of them is Gypsy- who would You hire? Would You vote for Gypsies` rights? or You just give always politically correct answer “Yes, of course that I’m tolerant” It is a shrewd observation that Italian people have forgotten that not long ago they were a nation of poor emigrants to America as well. To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans, largely due to pervasive media stereotyping, a number of popular gangster movies (such as The Godfather and Goodfellas) and television series such as The Sopranos. A Zogby International survey revealed that 78 % of teenagers 13 to 18 associated Italian Americans with either criminal activity or blue-collar work. A survey by the Response Analysis Corporation reported that 74 % of adult Americans believe most Italian Americans have "some connection" to organized crime. (of course it is not the true) How do You feel about that? Do You see any resemblance? I also entirely agree with Carlo that we can't resolve this problem by "witch-hunt" that produces only intolerance, and misunderstanding. I have some doubts as to proper understanding of your government intentions, but I feel that their resolution on Gypsies will hardly change anything. The prevailing stereotypes they have are negative and these are strengthened in the public sphere. Some politicians say that minorities should be invisible and this unfortunately strengthens that. Maybe people need to have contact with Gypsies and talk with them and see that they won’t lie to them or trick them or steal from them. Maybe they also should be more open-minded to accept that Gypsies take a different view about many things. Only then can their attitudes change. bernadetta
I agree with Giulio, Matteo, Giulia and the other people who talk about the important role of the school. The rate of schooling among gypsies is very low and first of all we need to increase it. Reciprocal understanding is a foundamental step towards integration and I think that the school could play a basic role to the purpose. This way italian and foreign students have the chanche to get in touch with different cultures and different ways of life, learning a lot from each other.
I'm sorry I'm late with my second post, I missed the last lesson and during these days I hadn't the opportunity to use a computer, so … here it is. See you tomorrow!
It is always important not 'to saw the tares with the wheat', so I agree with many of you in relation to the fact that there are different kinds of gypsies and that, as Francesca reminds us, some of them work and are good people and that some of them come from countries characterized by difficult situations, such as poverty, violence and persecutions. In my opinion the problem is related to the other gypsies (the majority of them), people that chose this kind of life, not so nomadic any more and that have lived in Italy since a long time. As Matteo rightly says, 'the majority of them (but not all) doesn't seek any employment, they don't want to respect the Italian laws, it's not clear where they find money to live'. I can understand begging or stealing because of hungryness if the people involved aren't objectively in order to obtain a job or if they are in momentarily difficulties, but if it is considered a normal way of living it's not acceptable. It's true that, in order to relate in a better way with different cultures, Italians have to work on themselves to change their mind and their attitude, however integration requires a long time, it's a difficult process that starts from cohabitation which is made of many little things of everyday life. In relation to what I said about respect, I agree with Gerardo when he says that 'they should earn it as well as other people have to do'. I consider it a right behaviour also towards many other immigrants that live in our country and that work, pay taxes, respect our law and behave in a very good way. And even if I think that their cohabitation with us shouldn't necessarily force them to change completely, I think that some changes in their lives could represent also a real good thing for themselves; in this sense, I agree with all you about the importance of sending their children to school: an education could be a way for a better relation between us and them and could give them the possibility to choose if they really want that kind of life in their future.
"The word varekai means "wherever" in the Romany language of the gypsies the universal wanderers. This production pays tribute to the nomadic soul, to the spirit and art of the circus tradition, and to the infinite passion of those whose quest takes them along the path that leads to Varekai." Cirque du soleil
67 comments:
In my opinion 'the Gypsy problem' is quite delicate. It was a nomadic society that had been travelling without working and going to school. Civilisation and people stopped them and made Gypsies change their lifestyle. In fact that caused a lot of problems because they weren't used to it. They started stealing, breaking the law and many other bad things against 'normal' society. We shouldn't make the same judgement eiher about each Gypsy. Most of them try living as we do although it's difficult. After all we must find a good solution to this problem for them and also for us.
The problem isn't Gypsies, but is integration. The issue appears when different people live together in the same place. The process of integration isn't simple for anybody, because it takes time and so does cultural change. The situation becomes difficult when there are prejudices and scarce knowledge about other cultures. Integration doesn't involve the loss of identity, but it allows culture and values to spread. Tolerance, respect of laws and other cultures are essential for integration.
Silvia
Every day the current events tell us facts regarding the Gypsies. Many times we read newspapers or watch TV which refer to facts where the Gypsies are involved because they have committed some crimes. Even in everyday life, we have the possibility to see them, since perhaps they are asking for money at the streets. All that contributes to putting the Gypsy people into a bad light.
The last measures taken by the Italian Government based on the fingerprinting of the Gypsies with the goal to identify each of them, have done nothing but increase the climate of hostility towards these people which was already present in our counrty.
The main issue addressed by these facts is the "integration" of these people within society. I think that real integration is not reachable through a simple "classification" of the persons. Nonetheless, it is very important that Gypsies respect our laws. Real integration is possible only through an effective participation of the Gypsy people within the Italian society, so all of them should find a job and send their children to school, because education plays a fundamental role in constructing a better society.
During the last lessons, we have been talking about the Gypsy problem.
This problem has become very actual because the government have proposed a law about the fingerprint of Gypsy children. According to them, this proposal permits to assure "the right of Italians not to be afraid".
I think that this package is wrong, because it doesn't respect Gypsies' right. It's true that there are problems of integration between the Gipsy communiy and the Italian one. Besides, Italian media shows a lot of negative facts about Gypsies.
I can't say the perfect solution to the problem, because I'm not a politician. Anyway, I think that every solution should respect Gypsies' right. On the other hand, it is necessary the respect of Italian law, not only by Gypsies but by everybody: unfortunately in Italy there is a lack of legality, and probably for this reason, people tend to give every kind of fault to foreign people, in particular to Gypsies.
Fabio
The gypsies problem is a common problem all over the Europe.
But i think that there is also quite disinformation about it.
In fact, we are thinking about them as a poor criminal people that never change because of their pride and culture, but also because of the periodical news reports that we listen to the radio and TV that led to consider them as a threat for our society.
I think that in our common sense, a consolidated fear on gypsies has been established, not only for racial reasons, but expecially for their traditions and their way of life, that sometimes, unfortunately, led to broke our laws.
In my opinion there is a real chance of integration. Our primary contribution is to their education (at least, to respect our laws) and to not lose their tradtions and roots.
In the end, i have to say that the education of poor people like gypsies requires our effort, that we have to take in account, because in my opinion laws aren't enough if there isn't a real interest, helpfulness and friendship to these people.
In general there are a lot of stereotypes and prejudices about Gypsies. In order to start solving this problem we need real and more information.
We are often afraid of what we don't know but fingerprinting or ghettization are'nt in my opinion good and civil solutions. Also because I think that there is good behaviour and bad behavior and this does'nt depend on origin, race, what group of people you belong to but on the individual.
Integration with a people so different and various is possible if everybody wants this and if there is a common effort, also by the Gypsy community.
I think that a total integration between Gypsies and other people is very difficult (if not impossible): the Gypsies are an ethnic group but they haven't got a particular country and territory. The laws of countries where they live can't be their laws, because these represent a reality that isn't part of their culture and mentality. However, their particular cultur musn't be an 'alibi' to profit from hospitality of states where they live.
Finally, I think that states shouldn't try to change the Gypsies' culture and the Gypsies should respect the other societies.
In my opinion,the situation of Gypsies in Italy is getting more and more tragic.They don't have a country,move from place to place,so their life is nomadic.Gypsies want to integrate with other people,but it is difficult.Italian people don't try to asimilate with Gypsies,because stereotypes about them are very strong.It's not true that all Gypsies are bad.I heart a lot of negative opinions about them.Society doesn't accept Gypsies,because for example they steal a lot and I agree with this opinion.But on the other hand,Gypsies haven't got almost any rights.They live only with their comunity and usually are cautions in relations with other people.They live in poverty and desperate conditions,what's more they are uneducated and often need health assistance.Hostility,intolerance are something they experience from other people.It's a really tragic situation.I think the government is also responsible for that and should do something to help Gypsies and improve their life.
My opinion about the Gypsy problem and its solution is a little bit confused. I think that if Gypsies live in our country we should respect their way of life but they should respect our laws. This is the base to create integration between two different culture: respect and comprehension.
Political government should work in this direction helped by media and political experts.
But in a state where not all Italians respects laws it is difficult to apply this solution.
There are many prroblems in the Gypsies question. First of all, the prejudice and, consequently, the racism: many people thinks that the Gypsies are dangerouse, thiefs, dirty and often occidental people is afraid of the differences. So their reaction is hate for this etnic group.
Another important problem that is particulary present nowdays, is the integration. The Gypsies are a nomadic group, that live in camps, generally in periferic area of a city. This factor helps to confine them to a ghetto. Their way of life is their culture, but is in contrast with our laws. We should try not to stifle this culture, but mahe them respectful of our laws. It's very difficult to conciliate this two aspects but surely fingerprinting aren't solution. Perhaps the better way to began a process of integration is to work with families, especially with children (the main victimes), explaining them the way of life of our society.
About gypsies i think that they are a little different from Italian people and this is only "one" reason that lead up to misunderstanding between us and them. To be different means that their customs and uses are different from Italian's ones, for example the concepts of work, education, respect for property, family and the personal hygiene. I think that every people has features that are resources for the world. I think that to know different persons from us is a good experience, but the reciprocal respect it's important. This means that if you are in my country, Italian or foreign, you must respect my laws. At least the laws! The respect of religion, usages and customs have to be implicit in the culture of every people in this world, but very often even this is not made.
Well, i simply think that i'm very happy that gypsies choose our country to stay here for a short or long period, because Italian people are very hospitable, but hospitality must be respected.
Gypsies may be a problem in our society because they don't respect our law and they haven't any education.
It's very difficult to not discriminate against these people. Only solution is the education: gypsies' children must go to school, where they will receive an education by civilised people, and the adults have to find a work and learn lo live together with Italians.
I think that we cannot discriminate against these people because they aren't all criminals and they need to receive a chance. In Italy they aren't a real problem because only 5% of them have a nomadic life style and we need to integrate them into our society.
Gypsies have their own culture, traditions and different way of life but, first of all, they are people and we should respect them.
It's important to underline that this respect isn't due to their being foreigners dut they should earn it as well as other people have to do.
They should work, send children to school, respect the law: in few words, they should lead an honest life. They have to adapt to our lifestyle without assimilating (if they don't want) as well as we have to accept their diversities without judging.
Obviusly Gypsies have to pay for crimes when thay decide to ignore the law like Italian criminals.
I think that the only way to integrate Gypsies is to deal with them as common people.
I know also that there are many prejudices and that media increase them more and more but if we would like to solve this "problem", we need to bind ourselves in our's small way.
During these lessons about the Gypsies I started finding out about these people. Before now,I judged according to the only thing that I knew, that is, Gypsies are nomadic people who, to live, beg at the junctions, at the stations and are in the newspaper for episodes of crime like thefts and kidnappings.
I recognise that among them there are bad people and good people like everywhere. If a gypsy wants to work and to integrate in our culture we probably don't give him a chance because we could have prejudices and fear. So, that gypsy could have no choice of integrate and the problem could remain.
During this period I read about their history and I understood that their way of life is a part of their culture ad maybe it could be wrong to force them to be different, to become like us.
If integration means mixing our culture I wonder how we can meet each other.Do we expect that they cross out their history, their culture to became like us?And are we ready to welcome them, to give them a work, a chance? This is a problem because we are afraid also about our neighbours even more about a group of people we don't know anything about.
I don't know if there is a solution to this problem that exists for all the minorities. Maybe the solution in inside our soul: we need to understand that everyone is different, has a personal history and should have a chance.
I think that there's a big difference between Gypsies' way of living and our way of living. This is the real problem. The Gypsies want to camp wherever they want and they want to do whatever they want even if it's not permitted by law. This is their culture. But in Italy or in other Countries there are laws that have to be respected by all people. So, the only way to live together without problems is that Gypsies should try to adapt their way of living to ours (for example go to schoool, find a job, etc..) and we should try to get rid of ours negative prejudice. This is not easy because a lot of gypsies are arrogant and out of control and because media shows only negative aspects of Gypsies. I think that Gypsies also have positive aspects and I'm curious to get to know them.
I don't think that we can speak about a Gipsy problem. Maybe the real problem are people without documents. They can't be identified and they can't be punished if they are guilty.
In my opinion if you want to be integrated you must have the same rights but also the same obligations like the other people.
I hope that in future we will be under the same rules.
It's really difficult to write something about gypsies without using stereotypes.My opinion is,just a little, politically uncorrect.I think that gypsies have the same rights that we have and that we have to respect them because first they are human beings like us.But in the other hand if you want to live in a society and you want to be integrated you have to share the same duties of the whole population.Everyone can benefit from the facilities of our society but you also have to partecipate to make this facilities possible.
I think that here in Italy we have been a problem with Gypsy people for several years.
I grow up with people around me and around the other children saying that if a child didn't behaved well, then Gypsies would come and take him away with them.
I always heard people saying that they are thieves, they kidnap children, they don't work and things like these.
In the last months in Italy there was an increase in violence and discrimination against Gypsies. After the rape and the murder of Mrs. Reggiani near Rome, It seemed that people went crazy: the Italian government took severe measures against stowaways, above all to hit Gypsies, seen as scapegoats for every crime committed in Italy.
I have to say that a lot of Gypsies don't want to work, they steal, they beat their wives when they don't get back home much money, they force their children to beg but also here in Italy we have men and women who commit crimes, husbands who beat their wives and their children.
I know a lot of Gypsies who have a legal work, they are profssors, artists and a lot of them work illegally like many Italians; they also make jobs that Italians don't make since a long time: they are good blacksmiths, they are good in agriculture and sheep-farming.
It seems that most of them are ashamed of being Gypsies and for this reason they present themselves as Italians, Croatians, Serbians and so on: their fear is the racism and the prejudice of the others.
I'm often on the train and in the station and I like watching people and listening to them and I realize that in the last months we reached a level of incredible tension: any action is enough to bring out the worst in people.
People set fire to some nomad camps, some primary school children, in Naples, did their homework writing "The Gypsies steal children to transplant their organs", "We are not racist but if they want to stay, they have to stop stealing".
I don't think that It's a bad idea to take a census of Gypsies: many of them came here with no visa and no passport and they decided to live in a camp so it would be very important to have precise information about ther number and their occupations.
Every 10 years in Italy there is a census, when I had to renew my identity card, I gave my fingerprints and also my boyfriend, who is Russian, had to give them when he arrived here for the first time and in may when he renewed his permit of stay so I don't believe that these measures are discriminating.
It seems to me that some of them don't want to cooperate to their integration: they are too attached to their nomadic traditions and habits and they don't understand that world and life go on, things change and in our world there is no more place for a nomadic lifestyle.
Integration isn't a oneway process and everyone has to do something: Italians have to show comprehension to these people because many of them come from very critical situations (Kosovo, ex Jugoslavia, perecutions and violence in other countries) and they have to give any kind of help Gypsies need; for their part, Gypsies must respect our laws, our rules and also our traditions.
I think that the main problem is the prejudice between them and us: we consider them thieves, lazy good-for-nothing and they consider us racist.
The main difficult is the ignorance: people have to overcome their prejudices and to be open-minded.
I really don't have a clear "opinion about Gypsies".
I can see that nowadays in Italy a lot of newspapers, t.v. programs, and mass media are talking about "inmigration" in general and people are talking about it, but I don't think that there's good and complete information about this complex issue.
About Gypsies, information is less "complete". We don't know them, we don't know their history, we don't know their traditions and why they are here. I think that's also why interaction with them is very poor.
I think that real integration is possible. "Acculturation" not as a process where an ethnic group acquires the cultural characteristics or traditions of another one, loosing their own, but as a truly sharing, understanding and acceptance which can enrich both cultures based on mutual respect and tollerance.
I think Gypsies are not an issue, like any other immigrants. There are so many prejudices against Gypsies and, in my opinion, it's wrong labelling as "a problem" all different behaviours.
Gypsies often get the bleam of violent crimes and I consider this just as a prejudice. In every people, no matter which ethnic group they belong to, there are honest and criminal men; so we have to fight against crime in general: Italian criminals as well as Gypsies, or foreign, ones.
I disagree with last Italian crackdown, that provide for Gypsies identification by their fingerprints. I consider this measure an ethnic discrimination. I could justify fingerprints programme only if it will be extended to all people. I suppose there are different and less discriminant ways to identify people, and in particular immigrants.
I think Italy needs a better law to control clandestine immigration and to integrate immigrants, Gypsies too, into Italian society, preserving every ethnic tradition. A good way to begin, I suppose, could be a better integration for foreign children in Italian schools.
The "Gypsy problem" it's quite critical and it needs to be resolved soon. The origin of the problem can be found in a reciprocal diffidence between Gypsies and Italians and in a persistence of prejudices. There are some facts regarding Gypsies that are absolutely true, the majority of them (but not all) don't seek any employement, they don't want to respect the Italian laws, it's not clear where they find money to live and buy expensive cars (often they do criminal activities) and they are not interested in an integration into the Italian social system, but on the other side the Italians are becoming a little bit more racist every day. I think that not all the Gypsies should be considered in the same way, criminals should be arrested but we should try to integrate the others with specifical projects. A fundamental thing to do is to grant the access to school to Gypsies childrens to give them the possibility to change their future while the adults should find a regular work (the Italian government could fund companies who use Gypsies workers for example), pay taxes and have identity documents (fingerprints can be useful). I think that Italians and Gypsies can live together but only if they will change their reciprocal point of view.
The relationship between the Italians and the Gypsies is a problem, of course! This is not a racist assertion, but an objective observation of the actual situation.
Maybe they steal, maybe they don't want to accept our rules, but these are not the reasons for which the problem seems so irresolvable.
We are scared about something or somebody who is different from us. About something we don't know, or we don't want to know.
Many persons think we are not racist, and I agree, but the more the Italians feel threatened the more xenophobia will take hold.
For us immigration is a quite new problem, a problem of the last twenty-thirty years; but Italians seem to have forgotten that just half a century ago they, too, were a nation of poor emigrants to America.
Nowadays many Italians feel that their way of life is threatened by immigration.
But the Gypsy problem, and immigration in general, are very complex situations that need to be tackled with a deep attention to the human rights and with a big sensibility.
Qualities that don't characterize of course the members of the present government. What we can pretend from persons like Calderoli or Maroni, or from the Major of Rome Alemanno.. No other words are needed!
But leaving apart any personal comment about the italian politicians, the first rule to follow is that if we are naturally scared about the immigrants and especially the Gypsies, the last thing to do is to feed the fear.
Otherwise the result is a diffusion of barbaric acts of racism by the police forces and by the population, like the Naples arson attacks to roma camps or the episodes of violence in the quarter of Pigneto in Rome.
We must invest in integration, trying to fill the gap between so different populations, but not pretending to smooth the differences, but rather betting in a reciprocal understanding.
And to talk about a recent new, how we can speak about integration when the government proposes the so called "bridge-classes", or rather classes for only immigrants?
We can learn something from the french cousins, who seem to have found a good way for the resolution of the immigration problem, with a level of integration that for us now could be only a dream.
Anyway I give the gold medal in the challenge for the worst thing for a resolution of the immigration problem to ignorance.
We can't resolve the problem with this "witch-hunt", that produces only racism episodes and intolerance, that grow up fed by ignorance and stupidity of the italian population and of the members of the italian government.
Up until today we have pointed a finger at various scapegoats; resolving a problem is another thing.
I think that in Italy there is not a "gypsy problem" but there is a great problem that involves immigration and safety. It seems impossible on one hand to make people respecting laws, on the other hand to control the immigration phenomenon. In our country exist two types of crime: the former is the one that includes housebreaking, shoplifting, bag-snatching, beating, brawl, and it's generally connected with bad social and economical conditions; the latter involves "big criminal associations" and also if this is a greater problem than the other one, the first one involves people more directly also because they perceive an immediate danger for their own life; for this they ask government to take measures expecially against these types of crimes. Gypsies are at this level, because they often refuse laws of the country they are living in and duties that are the ones of italian cytizens, but lots of times making use of thei rights. People associate crimes such as housebreaking or pick-pocketing with the uncontrolled immigration phenomenon and they ask government to take strong measures to gurantee their safety. It's difficult to solve the "immigration problem" and it would be better to try to integrate them in the society, without taking racist and extreme measures, which only hide the governments' incapacity to solve problems such as the ones connected with immigration, integration and safety.
I often have the impression tha in Italy some problems don't receive much attention, either referring to some people's interest for a particular problem or referring to the absence of analysis and intervention by government and public actors. So it happens that on one hand nobody does anything for a long time and on the other hand suddenly threre's a sensation of an urgent problem to solve backed by tv news and wespapers giving a large space to a particular issue for a certain period of time followed by silence again. That's what happened, in my opinion, relatively to the gypsies question, I mean: the problem of the cohabitation of Italians and the different Roma Gypsies groups is not new and it should have been faced much time ago.
Quoting one of the articles we read, I would say that there's a gypsy problem as well as an Italians' problem with Gypsies.
Everything starts from a reciprocal respect that many times for many reasons was absent.
I'd like the attention not to be concentrated only on the cultural diversity when referring to the question of integration, as if integration meant necessarily an omogeneous society, instead I simply would like to talk about rights and duties of individuals and groups of people that are by nature different. What I want to say is that the problem seems to me not who the Roma Gypsies are, or how they live, dress, etc., but how they behave.
Personally, I don't have a racist nature, so, in relation to some bad episodes we read about, I can't accept or understand any kind of violence and offence at all. So I think some Italians are wrong when they have some strong prejudices towards the nomads.
But respect must be reciprocal.
It's a fact that some groups of gypsies use to steal or have wrong behaviours, such as their claim to travel by public transport without paying, each time counting on the fact that, not having documents, and an 'official' identit, they won't receive a punishment.
And that's not fair.
There must be equal rights and equal duties, as we all are citizens living in a certain state under certain rules.
On one side I think that state should encourage a dialogue between us and them, but at the same time I think that no one should force the nomads to live like us, in the end they're not interested in, most of them seem to me interested in a dialogue not much more than Italians.
But they cannot expect not to change something in the way they relate to us, and the problem of identity is, in this sense, certainly important. I don't know if taking their fingerprints is the best thing to do, however I think that it is necessary to do something. In my opinion fingerprinting could be a possible thing to do, only if it is applied as a solution to a 'technical problem', so applied to all immigrants and people liing in Italy that don't have documents not taking care of ethnic orgin, religion or personal details of people, and not only to Gypsies.
Gypsies have historically been Europe's most disadvantaged and discriminated against ethnic group. With an estimated seven million people (in Europe), Gypsies are Europe's largest minority and an obvious target of persecution. In several Eastern European countries, Roma, with their distinctive appearance, way of life, and sometimes also religion, provide a convenient scapegoat and focus for old prejudices and new frustrations.
About 20 years ago, a continent-wide ascension of racism swept the East. The racist attacks were directed primarily at the Roma.
I can not remember those times but I remember that when I was at the age of 5 or 6 years old it was quite normal to meet Gypsy women in the city centre. They tried to convince You about their ability to foretell the future. My mother always repeated that I should by careful because one of them wants to predict but other one wants to steal my money. Also my grandmother told me a story about Gypsies situation in her village in the second half of the XX-th century. She said that Gypsies in that time led a nomadic life walking from house to house and asking for food and money. Most of them were trying to steal farm animals, fruit and vegetables from orchards.
Nowadays we hear mostly good things about Gypsies but only because of Polish Roma who do not maintain relationships with Rumanian Gypsies.
“We have earned our place here. Our women are clean, and children washed. We build houses and don't sleep on the floor. Rumanian Gypsies bring us shame." Polish Romas` opinion
There is the Gypsy problem in Italy as well as in Poland. On the one hand there a lot of organizations, associations and federations which struggle for Gypsies existence, rights and liberation from prejudice.
But on the other hand- many people in Poland do not approve of the efforts of the actors, nurses, and hospital personnel who provide assistance to the Roma from Rumania.
"There is so much poverty in Poland and you are not moved by it, but you have pity for those dirty wanderers. It is their own fault. They should work and help themselves”
I think that we need time to stamping out prejudice, but they will not become extinct without effect by Gypsies. I have read the Brzeg city forum. One man depicts a shattering scene in which a group of Gypsies beat up a Polish boy and shortly after said “ You can do nothing because we are protected” After the police arrived, none of Gypsies was noted down or arrested.
Like all over the world there are a lot of good and bad people from each nation and I think that everyone has their individual conscience and free will to help Gypsies (or not) to adapt to the Polish (or Italian) reality. What we should do is to realize and accept that they are different- without judging them. It is also important to respect their traditions and culture which sometimes is so different from ours.
is that right?
In the collective immagination we usually associate the term Gypsy with members of the Roma people. I think that there are many different kinds of Gypsies. Traditional we can divide them by the ethnic group. In fact each one has a different culture and a different style of life. But from a legal point of view we must divide them by their citizenship. In fact States have to act in different ways because of their nationality. For example all European Gypsies can travel in Europe without any restriction because they belong to the European Union which is based on the value of the liberal circulation of people and goods.
Speaking about gypsies with an Italian citizenship, I think that we can't force them to live like us, but we have to respect their way of life and we must allow them to live in accordance with their tradition as much as possible. So, if they want to live in nomad camps Italian State can permit it, but it should oblige them to respect an health regulation, for example by the destruction of the shanty towns and the building of special structures.
In addition I think that the State has to impose education on gypsy children because our laws say that every Italian child has the right to education and because it's important for their integration into our society.
Furthermore, in my opinion they have to work ( because if you don't work the only way of life is to steal!!) and pay taxes like other citizens.
In conclusion I think the State must strongly fight against every crime and every behaviour which is in contrast with the Italian law.
Nowadays, the issue of Gypsies is one of the most crucial and relevant topics of discussion.
Politicians and ordinary people have provided their opinion about the presence of these nomadic populations within Eastern countries and around the biggest European cities. I live in a country where people and institutions feel the problem.
Too many shantytowns, where people live in very bad conditions, developped in the suburbs of Naples, Rome, Turin, Milan and in many other towns.
The integration process of these homeless should be included in the political agenda of local and central governments in order to let them live in a fair and more respectful society.
However, such a process must be reciprocal and Gypsies have to respect the laws and the rules of the country which hosts them. For sure, the co-existence of different cultures and ways of life needs a kind of not simple reciprocal recognition.
Recently, news-papers and TV programs have told us facts related to Gypsies, such as the fire-raising of a Roma camp in Naples in May and many other events associated with robberies and crimes commited by nomads. In this situation, I shall point out the matter of the prejudice some people have against those who choose a different way of life: not every Gypsy is a kidnapper or a delinquent but, for sure, some of them are forced to commit crimes as a reaction to a society which emarginate them.
In such a context, as I showed above, the role of the State is fundamental, cause it should create the conditions for a peaceful convivence respecting the different cultures and force these people to respect common rules, for example the necessity to be recognized.
Neverthless, especially in my country, sometimes political parties use this problem to do propaganda in a demagogic and populisic way, without actually caring about the problem.
I think everyone has to do his part; behind a different behaviour may exist an important resource for our society. Certainly, the first step is the creation of common rules of behaviour, around which everyone agrees.
In second place, I suppose the right of vote (at least for local elections) can represent an historical step to allow these people to express their problem and to ask the institutions for solutions.
It is a long process, but I hope that in a few years we'll speak about this issue with new words and new concepts.
My opinion about Gypsies is the very different culture about italian style. But I think also that we have an old complicated story. We didn't yet solved our internal social problems between the northen and southest part of Italy. In Italy have a particular point of view, that differences are like a wall between people not a source to respect or a point to start to open your mind.
We are not clear in our society to do respect simple and common laws to all people, italian and foreing included.
During the last election campaign, the right-wing parties stressed very much the need for more security for Italian people. The biggest country security problems, they said, are coming from Roma people, Gypsies and more in general illegal immigrants.
In Italy, after the case of Giovanna Reggiani, a woman brutally killed in Tor di Quinto, near Rome, by an immigrant, there was a very strong sentiment of hatred against those people; the right-wing parties successfully exploited this feeling and won.
Only a month after the elections, the news (that was proved to be a hoax) of an attempt of kidnapping a child near Naples by a Roma girl set off the bomb: two nomad camps were set on fire by Italian people, forcing the Gypsies that were living there to leave; the news began reporting assaults on immigrants everyday; the defense minister stated that he was going to use the Italian army nearby the camps; and the home minister said that he wanted to take fingerprints of every Gypsy child, causing strong reactions by UNICEF and the EU.
Since then, we haven't heard about Gypsies very much. We can almost say that they served the purpose, and now we can forget about them. Nevertheless, Italian people still feel unsafe, and when questioned about what we should do with Gypsies, the majority answers that they must leave Italy, that fingerprinting children is a good thing, and so on; in short, they like the government measures.
And how's Italian lack of safety related to Gypsies? The most common answers are because they steal, they kidnap children in order to use them to ask for charity in the streets, they don't even know the very notion of “law”, so it's impossible to make them obey our ones.
Are those things true? Actually not: every news report of Gypsies kidnapping a child was proved to be false; it is a quite common urban myth. Do they steal? Yes, of course. But Italian people steal too; and if we make difficult for them to find a job, they will steal more and more.
We can argue that stealing something to eat (or something to sell in order to buy some food) might not be a bad thing per se. The actual problem is that whoever steals (Italian or not) isn't immediately arrested by the police, tried and punished. Are the government measures going to stop these crimes? Of course not: while stating that they'll take fingerprints and put soldiers in the streets, the government was suspending trials for crimes such as theft, burglary, abduction, and so on (this was later discarded, when the prime minister obtained his impunity with another law). Clearly the government intent wasn't the enforcement of laws, that could really help people to feel safer. An integration process should begin with the respect of laws by all the parts involved; statements like “Gypsies have no concept of laws” don't actually mean anything, if laws are observed by everyone.
Moreover, the State has to play an active role in order to help these people to integrate, without discrimination, and this role is very important for Italian people too, because usually (and historically) people have mistrust of “strangers”. The State must help them to find a job, to live decently, and integrate into the Italian society without losing their own history, costumes and traditions; this doesn't require soldiers, this requires wise politicians, and in Italy we're short of them.
Integration has never been an easy task, of course, and it requires years and years of efforts. But I think it's worth doing.
@ Giancarlo
I agree with Giancarlo when he says that some problems don’t receive much attention for a long time since the media don’t talk about them, but between saying that and saying nobody does anything there is quite a different. Referring to the Gypsy problem, for examples, there are many municipal districts which locally have taken legal measurements in order to limit the crimes caused by that nomadic people. Of course when the problem arrives to the major organs of information, the resonance chamber is very larger, so it happens that it is felt as a very urgent question.
Anyway, the problem of Gypsies’ integration is a hot topic, also especially after the come one after the other of current event’s facts in which they are involved. As I just explained, and also like Giancarlo says, integration should starts from our actions, which could try to respect the way of life of these people. However, at the same time, also the Gypsy should force themselves to making part of society by working and sending their children to school.
In Italy, in my opinion, people believe that all Gypsies are thieves or beggins but there are a lot of honest Gypsies. The home minister of Italy, Roberto Maroni, suggests taking fingerprints of Gypsies, including children, in order to guarantee safety but I think this is discriminating for those people. I could agree with taking fingerprints to all people, foreigners and Italians, who have committed a crime. In this way we could warrant safety, not only for Italians, but also for all immigrants who work honestly in our country.
I think that we have a problem and that we are still very far from the solution. Until a few decades ago Italians emigrated to other countries while now every day hundreds of immigrants are crossing our borders. We are scared and confused by this new situation and more and more often prejudice and fear influence our actions. Immigrants come from several countries, belong to diverse ethnic groups, have different backgrounds and often have a way of life that’s very far from ours, like gypsies. Maybe gypsies, more than other immigrants, embody in our eyes a life style which is opposite to ours and I understand that learning to live together with people that are so different from us is not simple. All the gypsies are criminals, all the Italian are racists who want to confine gypsies in ghettos… I think it’s time to forget these old clichés and start working towards integration instead. We don’t have to renounce our identity to do this, but is necessary to stop and listen to what the others have to say.
In my opinion, it's impossible to control ilegal imigration to Italy. The only way to make this problem less strong is to help gypsies to find a job and to get used with italian culture. I think it could be a solution to avoid criminality.
It's important also to undestand that the most part of the time imigrants come to Italy looking for a better future for their families. The only difference between them and us is that we have had the oportunity to grow up in better conditions.
Other solution could be to let gypsy children going to school together with italian children. It's a good oportunity to open their minds and let them lern more about italian culture. Probably in the future, they would choose a different style of life for the next generations.
@Francesco
I think francesco has hit the target when he says that sometimes
some Gypsies are forced to commit crimes as a reaction to a society
which emarginate them.
Of course this is not true at all, but it underlines the necessity of
a integrated society which is essential to build a civil
cohabitation.
We have to stop to let them feeling hated. By this way we can change
something. Of course not the criminals, but them who became criminals
by living in a society that does not love them.
A better society that has to be built by each other, of course, but
we can play a particular role.
They have an history of persecution, it is enough to think
about what Hitler has done to them.
The worst thing is the claim to change their lifestyle. If they
want to be nomad they have the right to be nomad, but obviously
they must respect the rules of the host country.
Otherwise we go on in this sort of neverending loop.
I agree with Diana, because Gypsies's problem is very delicate and their different life style leads to difficult integration process. I also agree with Giulio that said TV and newspapers only refer a wrong picture of Gypsies and actual government is carring on a very discriminant and racist politicy.
@ Debbie
I agree with you. Gypsies cannot claim only the rights of Italians, but they must respect obligation like them. We appear as racist and what about them?
I agree with who says that integration is possible, if we want it.
Reciprocal respect and comprehension are important to start the process of integration and education of young Gypsies is a possible way to change this situation.
Lorenza said that there is bad information about this people and I think it's true.
Like Giulio I think that governament doesn't improve integration, for example it's sufficient to think about fingerprinting, that is very discriminanting.
I'm acoording with Diana when she says that if we try to stop Gypsies and change their style of life with the force, it is logical that they are going to have a bad actitude agaist society. However, It's difficult to find a good solution for them and also for us. Firstble we have to change our way of thinking about gypsies. we can start by lerning more about them.
I agree with Diego, Chiara, Lorenza, Gerardo, Elisa and Giulio because they wrote on the blog opinions which are very similar to mine. I disagree with Fede because I don't think that Italians do not want to open up to other people and other culture. On the contrary I think that Italians are very open and tolerant people.
I think that Diana has well explicated the 'Gypsy problem' and their difficulty to integrate in society.
I agree with Luisa, Giulio, Fabio and many others. In the process of integration they believe it's necessary that Gypsies must respect our laws and I add that we have to respect Gypsies like all people.
I was interested in Francesca's opinion. She has more direct knowledge about Gypsies than me. When she wrote about her Russian boyfriend she has reminded me that also my South-American friend gave his fingerprints when he arrived in Italy for the first time.
In only case I believe that fingerprinting isn't necessary because I think is possible to take a census in other way.
If the population of Gypsies constitutes a problem I think we could resolve it with information and knowledge about their origins, or about the reasons they are escaping, that might be a war.
We talk about Gypsies without having the minimum idea about them. It's clear that the media doesn't help us because they show only negative aspects and things about gypsies; that increases the negative view about them.
Nowadays the italian government has created a "security problem" in our society because of two separated cases of violence last summer. I think that this is a strategy to keep us uninformed about the real problems of the society. For this reason the government wants to increase our security system by increasing police in the city and by fingerprinting of foreign people. I think this is a very discriminatory measure because we think they are guilty before they have committed a crime! Besides, in my opinion, having more guns on the streets doesn't increase my security but the contrary is true.
@Dario
I think that the fingerprinting programme is wrong also if it is extended to all people. However I agree with Dario when he says that there is necessity to find a trade off between preserving Gypsies' traditions and improving integration in society.
Also in my opinion integration should start from children and for this reason I think that separated classes are a very bad idea because it doesn't lead to benefits for education of boys and girls. In fact children learn very quickly.
Integration is a very difficult challenge because the difference among cultures is unavoidable, but at the same time we have to try to reach it.
I agree with Carlo's opinion when he says "for us immigration is quite a new problem, a problem of the last twenty-thirty years; but Italian people seem to have forgotten that just half a century ago they where a nation of poor emigrants to America".
Italian people can understand problems and resistances that Gypsies have to fight against, but they also remember the efforts made to adapt to American culture and laws. Italian emigrants lived and worked in subhuman conditions but we don't remember their crimes: rather we recognize their determination, their work and we should thank them because in many cases our granparents could continue their life in Italy with the honestly earned money.
That's because we can't accept that Gypsies continue living without respecting laws and with expecting "not to change - as Giancarlo says - something in the way they relate to us".
If we consider that "it's not clear where they find money to live and often buy (or steal???) expensive car - as Matteo says - and that they aren't interested in an integration into Italian social system", I'm not surprised that Italian people become more and more racist.
Of course we shouldn't generalize because there are Gypsies who are integrated into our society, regularly work and send their sons to school.
In this cases equal rights should correspond to the equal duties and several governements should be able to guerantee them.
I think that this is a serious problem especially in Italy. Gypsies must found a job, an house and must live like us, they must integrate in Italy. On the other hand Italian must accept Gypsies and don't exclude them. Unfortunately there's another problem like racism and because people doen't relys on strangers and it's so hard.
For me only italian politics can change this situation with laws for Italian people and strangers.
I agree with Giulio and Diego when they talk about Gypsies' problem. I think their opinions are like mine: they also believe that real integration between the Gypsy community and the Italian one is necessary.
Reading some other posts, I see that many boys and girls think it's very hard to realize a total integration, but it's a common opinion that every kind of integration solution should respect Gypsies' rigths. On the other hand, the respects of Italian low is necessary as well.
I agree with Lorenza when she says that we need real and more informations to start solving Gypsy problems. I think we must eliminate stereotypes and prejudices because in this society we have the possibility to be informed and to have a relationship with other societies.
I disagree with Giusy when she says that Gypsies haven't got a particular country and territory, because I have read that it's not true. For example the population of Sinti and Rom have been living in Italy for a very long time.
I agree with Sylwia that the biggest problem is integration and acceptation Gypsies by other people.She underlined that the process of integration is not simply for anybody,because it takes time and reguires a lot of effort from people.For years Gypsies have experienced hostility and intolerance from other people,so their assimilation is getting more and more difficult.What's more Diana noticed that it caused they started stealing and breaking the law,because they haven't got almost any rights in "normal" society.Integration doesn't have to involve the loss of their indentity ,but is a good way to show values of other culture.
I really agree with Lizziebennet: talking about Gypsies there is the risk of using stereotypes caused by, I think, the poor knowledge we have of them, also because of the difficulty of interact with them in everyday life. About the question of 'Rights and Duties' I think that a concrete socialization of Gypsies is fundamental also to beat all the stereotypes that really exist around them. Becoming citizens of our Country they could have our rights but also our duties, that is the most important symbol of equality... I think that one of the most important question is that they are perceived as a social group that can live also without respecting a great part of duties that are the ones of Italian citizens. Identification of people living in our Country, in obedience of course to human rights, that is the most important thing that we can never and never forget, can be the first step to a real integration of everyone.
@ Linda
I agree with Linda when she says that Italians aren't ready to live together with other people of different cultures.
In Italy there are too many prejudices about who is different from us and , in my opinion, there is no will to change.For example in this days the Italian government passes a law which obliged immigrant children to study in separate classrooms. In this way children get used to being scared of what is different and they aren't interested in knowing different cultures. Instead I think this is the only way to accept immigrants and lived together with them. I travelled a lot around the world and met a lot of people who have different religions and behaviours from mine. I learnt a lot from them, becoming a better person,and I hope they learnt from me too!!!
@debbie
Your reasoning sounds quite dangerous, because it relies on the assertion that the State / the police must have some means in order to identify a criminal after he committed a crime.
But you can't force criminals to have an ID card (they will “lose” their own); so the next step will be taking some kind of biometric data (fingerprints, DNA samples, and so on) of every citizen – even those who aren't criminals –, which are really expensive and could pose a serious violation of our privacy (who will manage all these data? What are they going to do with?).
Moreover, there are many valid studies that prove that these kinds of identification measures are completely useless to fight crime, since it's cheaper and faster to use the “ordinary” investigation methods after a crime has been committed.
We must invest much more in crime prevention; and when speaking about Gypsies, these mean invest in their integration in our society, finding them a job, educate their children and so on.
Hallo... I'm Mari... I would like to correct my comment because I wrote 'the difficulty of interact with them' but I thing that I had to write 'the difficulty in interacting with them'... Excuse me... See you later!
I agree with Francesca and her analysis of the actual situation, the italian government until today have done anything to resolve the problem of Gypsies, all the measures taken are not structural, I think that there is the need of policies for the middle and long period, not only for the short period. I think also that a census of Gypsies it's necessary to have more information about their number,to give them a document of identity and to control the situation that is becoming every day more critical.
I think that Carlo is right when he says that nowadays the relationship between Italians and Gypsies is a problem and that the ignorance and fear of something different are the main hurdle in the integration process.
It's true that It seems that Italians forgot their past as emigrants and the prejudice with which they were considered in the countries where they arrived.
For Italy immigration is a new problem: Italians have to understand that their country is considered a land of opportunities.
It seems that Italian politicians don't adopt intelligent policies while we need a well prepared political class able to implement effective policies of integration.
I think that we need to solve the problem starting from the children in schools: they have to learn what repect, tolerance and integration mean.
But I believe that also Gypsies have to do their part: Italians can learn to overcome their prejudices but if Gypsies continue to refuse to do anything, to cooperate for their integration, well I think that this problem can't be solved at all.
@Calo
I decided to make a comment on Carlo’s opinion because we were talking about this “problem” during the lesson about Gypsies so I’m sure that our opinions are quite similar.
I agree that we-people are scared about something or someone who is different from us. About something we don't know, or we don't want to know.
It is easy to say that You are not racist when You live among people who are the same nationality, when You are among peers. But let’s thing about the situation that You would have to make an decision about hiring someone. Let`s make assumption that there are two people who have the same qualifications, and one of them is Gypsy- who would You hire?
Would You vote for Gypsies` rights? or You just give always politically correct answer
“Yes, of course that I’m tolerant”
It is a shrewd observation that Italian people have forgotten that not long ago they were a nation of poor emigrants to America as well.
To this day, Italian Americans are frequently associated with organized crime, and New York in the minds of many Americans, largely due to pervasive media stereotyping, a number of popular gangster movies (such as The Godfather and Goodfellas) and television series such as The Sopranos. A Zogby International survey revealed that 78 % of teenagers 13 to 18 associated Italian Americans with either criminal activity or blue-collar work. A survey by the Response Analysis Corporation reported that 74 % of adult Americans believe most Italian Americans have "some connection" to organized crime. (of course it is not the true)
How do You feel about that? Do You see any resemblance?
I also entirely agree with Carlo that we can't resolve this problem by "witch-hunt" that produces only intolerance, and misunderstanding. I have some doubts as to proper understanding of your government intentions, but I feel that their resolution on Gypsies will hardly change anything. The prevailing stereotypes they have are negative and these are strengthened in the public sphere. Some politicians say that minorities should be invisible and this unfortunately strengthens that.
Maybe people need to have contact with Gypsies and talk with them and see that they won’t lie to them or trick them or steal from them. Maybe they also should be more open-minded to accept that Gypsies take a different view about many things. Only then can their attitudes change.
bernadetta
I agree with Giulio, Matteo, Giulia and the other people who talk about the important role of the school. The rate of schooling among gypsies is very low and first of all we need to increase it. Reciprocal understanding is a foundamental step towards integration and I think that the school could play a basic role to the purpose. This way italian and foreign students have the chanche to get in touch with different cultures and different ways of life, learning a lot from each other.
I'm sorry I'm late with my second post, I missed the last lesson and during these days I hadn't the opportunity to use a computer, so … here it is. See you tomorrow!
It is always important not 'to saw the tares with the wheat', so I agree with many of you in relation to the fact that there are different kinds of gypsies and that, as Francesca reminds us, some of them work and are good people and that some of them come from countries characterized by difficult situations, such as poverty, violence and persecutions.
In my opinion the problem is related to the other gypsies (the majority of them), people that chose this kind of life, not so nomadic any more and that have lived in Italy since a long time. As Matteo rightly says, 'the majority of them (but not all) doesn't seek any employment, they don't want to respect the Italian laws, it's not clear where they find money to live'.
I can understand begging or stealing because of hungryness if the people involved aren't objectively in order to obtain a job or if they are in momentarily difficulties, but if it is considered a normal way of living it's not acceptable.
It's true that, in order to relate in a better way with different cultures, Italians have to work on themselves to change their mind and their attitude, however integration requires a long time, it's a difficult process that starts from cohabitation which is made of many little things of everyday life.
In relation to what I said about respect, I agree with Gerardo when he says that 'they should earn it as well as other people have to do'. I consider it a right behaviour also towards many other immigrants that live in our country and that work, pay taxes, respect our law and behave in a very good way.
And even if I think that their cohabitation with us shouldn't necessarily force them to change completely, I think that some changes in their lives could represent also a real good thing for themselves; in this sense, I agree with all you about the importance of sending their children to school: an education could be a way for a better relation between us and them and could give them the possibility to choose if they really want that kind of life in their future.
Enjoy it! :)
"The word varekai means "wherever" in the Romany language of the gypsies the universal wanderers. This production pays tribute to the nomadic soul, to the spirit and art of the circus tradition, and to the infinite passion of those whose quest takes them along the path that leads to Varekai."
Cirque du soleil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOMlmcZGCRk
http://www.cirquedusoleil.com/CirqueDuSoleil/en/showstickets/varekai/intro/intro.htm?rmid=20081110_Madrid_VPremiereTV_EN&rrid={552EF427-7285-44ED-9C2E-A65EC0F4D9BB}
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